User talk:Tim Trent

From TrainSpottingWorld, for Rail fans everywhere

Tim Trent is taking a short break and will be back here soon.


Coding issues

Hi Tim. Are you aware of any coding issues here as the main page doesn't seem to appear as it should despite the correct coding. If you aren't aware of any then I could ask some experienced coders I know back on the english wikipedia. Thanks. Tbo 157 18:41, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

If you mean the boxes round things, I have one idea which I am about to try. If you mean "other stuff" I have no idea and would appreciate a short6 term, (or long term) influx of skilled folk to solve it. Tim Trent Talk to me 20:04, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
I mean the text for the relevant sections don't seem to appear in the relevant boxes. Tbo 157 20:22, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Have a look here where I propose a solution for discussion. Tim Trent Talk to me 20:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing me to the discussion and for the admin tools which were some how given to me only a few hours after Bluegoblin7 mentioned it. I indeed do know that adminship is hard work as I am myself an admin on the english wikipedia. The tools probably will be useful for me here as I help with setting up the wiki. Whether I want to keep the tools after the wiki is up and running, I will contact you when the time comes. Thanks very much. Tbo 157 21:29, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't think I could stand being a WP Admin! Too many people with axes to grind. Someone kindly flattered me by suggesting I apply, once. I chose to decline with gratitude! I noticed you and BG7 had talked about adminship. I have no issue with "whim appointment" where it solves a problem. I do want to get to consensus based appointments as soon as we can, though. Tim Trent Talk to me 21:36, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't think 'whim appointment' is an issue in this case. As far as I am concerned, already being an admin at WP is more than enough qualification to become an admin here!
EdJogg 00:11, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't disagree, but I want to get away from "whim" in order to ensure the community develops the way it wishes. Tim Trent Talk to me 07:16, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I do agree that community consensus is important. Tbo 157 17:06, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Can you provide a logo of planespottingworld so that I can put a link to it on the sister projects section on the main page. Thanks. Tbo 157 17:32, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

here it is:[1] --Bluegoblin7 17:37, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
I was asking for copyright permission frim Tim but thanks for your help. Tbo 157 18:07, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Ah ok - dnt think hell mind, ive used the TSW 1 on m site (with his permission...). Oh and when your ready, the main page here needs oing there 2!!! --Bluegoblin7 18:11, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Sorry can you type that out again as I find that quite difficult to understand. Tbo 157 18:27, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Sorry no problems. It reads: Ah ok - don't think tim'll mind - i used the TSW one on my website, with permission. And when you're ready, the main page over here needs putting on planes aswell... --Bluegoblin7 18:30, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. Sure. Ill do a slightly different main page on planespottingworld. Ive already registered an account there with the same username. Tbo 157 19:05, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Ok no probz - ive left u a message over there about if u wnt adminship - if its a yeh ill ask Tim. --Bluegoblin7 19:15, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Spotting World Blog...

Hi Tim i've set up a blog, but can't use it @ planes - and can't create a new one either...HELP!!! BG7 20:12, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

on Planes look at swplane:User:Tim Trent (in edit mode) and emulate that there in your user id. It proved "interesting" to integrate one blogging system with multiple wikis, so we achieved what we could achieve. Tim Trent Talk to me 21:10, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Stop using Tim's page for all and sundry!!!

Now we have the station cafe up-and-running, do you all think you could try and start discussions there please? I suspect that there are very few conversation topics that are for Tim's eyes alone!

This will have the added advantage of keeping site-wide discussions in one place where they can be more easily archived and searched for!!

Um, Please?

EdJogg 21:46, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

That works well for me. Involve me directly in things you need me to be involved in, of course. And just try and stop me barging in where I want to interest myself! But let's get back to the one guiding principle: This is your embryo community. I am responsible for legality and provision. I'll solve what I can solve. But I truly want you guys and those who join you to make this what you want it to be.
Please will a really nice person migrate the more general stuff to the cafe?
Tim Trent Talk to me 22:06, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
I would use the station cafe if more people used it and added it to their watchlist but that doesn't seem to be the case at the moment. Tbo 157 22:23, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
I guess that's a case of training people appropriately. At present I am still using 'Recent Changes' and scanning all that goes on. (Although in the last couple of days I have stopped looking at 'every' edit!!) Using a user's talk page simply alerts him every time anyone comments, and anyone following a conversation will have had to be watching this page anyway.
And yes, Tim, I am well aware of the irony in me replying on your talk page... :-p
EdJogg 00:32, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Just had a brainwave about this. We need to setup an Admin's Watchlist page (eg), and setup links to the 'Related changes' for that page. The watchlist would contain all the cafe, help, faq, etc, pages, and could be used for monitoring locations where general discussions should be taking place. Thus, when article turnover is greater than can be reasonably handled using Recent Changes, the Admin's Watchlist would ensure discussions were not missed.
...and now, this should probably go to the Cafe too!
EdJogg 00:38, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Our content

Hi. Apparently the majority of our articles were copied from Wikipedia using a bot and have no attribution to their original authors. This may cause problems for you more than anyone else. Thanks. Tbo 157 13:02, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

The talk page should have {{From Wikipedia}} on it in each case, which meets the guidelines they give. I'd appreciate examples that do not have it, though. Tim Trent Talk to me 13:35, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi Tim, tell me to shove of to the cafe in this isnt relevant, but if an article has been expanded a lot here, and shows very little resemblance to it's WP counterpart, does it still require the tag? Also, if i was the main writer of an article, does it still have to be tagged? Cheers, BG7 13:43, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
That is quite an interesting set of thoughts. My feeling is that, for total clarity, the original source shoudl still be cited. As an example, of we one day bring wp:Ballast tractor over "here" I think it still requires the citation, though I started it off. Perhaps directly relevant is wp:Maley & Taunton, since it is tram oriented.
The GFDL original licence is valid and then, when the article diverges, or if the WP article vanished, the entire history is present. So I think it needs to have the attribution.
Tim Trent Talk to me 13:49, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Ok. I think this might need an FAQ page somewhere. BG7 13:51, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
I'll be a good boy and create one Tim Trent Talk to me 14:01, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Your really becoming the model good boy: creating a wiki using the pain MW, creating FAQ pages, whatever next? add a tram spotting world to the collection if wikis?BG7 14:07, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

An interesting statistic

The most viewd pages here are the thomas the tank engine articles. Other than that we don't seem to have many articles which aren't copied from Wikipedia. We must be doing something wrong. I thinkw e need to all start work on articles and ideally open anonymous editing. We really should find a practical way of doing this. On Wikipedia alot of the edits come from anons. In some cases, anons contriute more to articles than registered users. And you may be surprised to know that there are significantly more constructive anon edits than vandalism. Tbo 157 17:46, 19 December 2007 (UTC) Tbo 157 17:36, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Allowing anonymous edits...

Hi Tim,

I know your'e kinda against this, but please just look!!!

We just wondered what your input was on the above topic. The only place we seem to succeed here is on the Thomas articles. Please contribute to the discussion on on my talk page, with your thoughts, and then whether you support or oppose the gesture.


BG7 18:23, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi Tim. Sorry for confusing you earlier. That was one discussion that just HAD to take place at the Buffet - a request to change policy. Can I make a small request, please? Could you write up a help/FAQ/policy page about the reasons for registering and the benefits it provides (I'm sure you can nick copy from WP!). When it's done we can move the related discussion from the Buffet to the new page's talk page (I'm sure that makes a helluva mess of the History, but it does retain the discussion with the 'policy'.)
PS - there are rumblings that the cafe is too complicated and hard to use (!)... dunno what the complaints are yet....
EdJogg 00:43, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Remind me if I haven't done it by the end of today. Tim Trent Talk to me 09:18, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Look instead at MediaWiki:Whitelistedittitle and MediaWiki:Whitelistedittext. Feel free to edit to improve them Tim Trent Talk to me 10:00, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

RS Reviews

Tim, I was just looking over the list of Railway Series books a little while ago, and I had a question. Would it be all right if I were to make a page for the books and give each story a synopsis? Thanks! --DalekX 16:28, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I know i'm not Tim, but he won't mind me jumping in here: GO FOR IT!!! We need more content that's not duplicated at WP, and also we can link it up from the WP articles to get us more well known.
BG7 17:00, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, BG. I'll get to work on that right now. However, as I do not as of yet have all 41 books, I won't be writing synopsis for all of them. --DalekX 17:45, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Loading time

Hi Tim. Something Ive noticed about this site which applies when viewing from any pc Ive tired is the amount of time it takes for a page to load which may cause people to give up trying. At times it can take up to 5 minutes for a page to load and we hardly have any pages being viewed. Just think of what could happen when we get more hits. Ive also responded to the google hits message back on the station cafe. Thanks. Tbo 157 13:25, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

We seem to have a network bottleneck in the data centre, which is a bummer and outside our control. It happens at times and is more than aggravating.
The server is sunbathing, drinking pina coladas and having a full body massage, but the appearance is "Lord I am busy!"
Tim Trent Talk to me 13:44, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. Regarding the Google thing, Google don't mind if websites try to get higher up on their search results, In fact, apparently thats the whole point. Google deliberately encourage sites to fill with relevant things people would search for so that they will become higher ranked on teh google search results. Tbo 157 14:11, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Do you read Matt Cutts (of Google) and his blog? Well worth studying the SEO parts. They are more than happy for legitimate methods, but never, ever, anything tricksy. They kick sites off the index for tricks. Even BMW was kicked off at one point. I'd rather have a slow burn steady build than a damp squib. Tim Trent Talk to me 14:41, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Whats the non tricky way of doing it if that even exists in this day and age? How did Wikipedia get so high up for everything? Tbo 157 16:41, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
The non tricky way is simply to provide content on a regular basis, and to generate links, genuine links, in to the content, by no means to the home page, but deep within the content. Wikipedia is high up because it has a huge volume of content, and because it is linked to by many, many sites.
To the mantra of content, one adds good quality HTML (we filter our HTML to be the best it can be - we strive for W3C compliance, but we use software to create that as autmagtically as we can), and then one prays a lot. SEO is a matter of a black art against a welded shut box. I am a professional webmaster amiong several other activities, and I've watched SEO "!fashions" come and go. The only stalwart of SEO is content, unique content.
The great thing is that is what we do every tmioe we use a talk page, although content here is of less "interest" than page content. But this page and all talk pages are picked up by search engines and indexed and cached.
Tim Trent Talk to me 21:48, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Workforce:European rail and Workforce:UK Railways

Since you live in the UK, you might want to join and help us with articles in the workforces mentioned above. I can't do it alone and theres already 3 userw working on US related articles. Lets work on our UK ones together. Tbo 157 14:25, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I will when I can. I've just started to pick up the occasional year, such as 2007 based on Slambo's work at 1981 Tim Trent Talk to me 14:43, 21 December 2007 (UTC)


Before I go on my 2 week break , just thought you might be interested to know that Wikipedia anti vandal bot WP:User:VoABot II does not use IRC but patrols the recent changes. The bot is operated by Wikimedia developer WP:User:Voice of All. I won't be back until after the New Year so Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Thanks. Tbo 157 01:32, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

I've followed up your conversation there and am hoping for a positive respionse. Tim Trent Talk to me 09:59, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Thats great. Btw Ive had a look at your template problem over at Psw:B-18 Bolo. The problem seems to be a MediaWiki problem regarding ParserFunctions. Due to the different general layout of pages from WP, the same MediaWiki ParserFunction coding doesn't work on any of the spottingWorld projects. However some other templates using ParserFuncton do work so its something that template uses in the MediaWiki. Tbo 157 19:24, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Admin tools

Hi. Can you remove my sysop tools. I really am sorry but I will be really busy over the next few years and Ill have little, if any wiki editing time. Thanks you for all the help you've given me here and I hope you understand. I may be back one day under another username. Because the wikibreak enforcer doesn't work here, Ive decided to screw up my passsword. Also please understand that I have nothing against this wiki - It is just due to personal reasons that I am leaving. I do wish you the best of luck in setting up all your wikis. If you would like to contact me in the future, the best way would be by email, which can be found by clicking email this user on WP. Thanks. Tbo 157 17:58, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure you'll pop back and look. :) Thanks for all you've done here. I'll remove the sysop directly. I hope the busy time of the next few years is out of choice and will be fun and profitable in whatever waty you choose. Tim Trent Talk to me 21:00, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

The Transport Journal Issue 1

The newsletter for SpottingWorld projects

Issue 1, 21st December 2007 About the Transport Journal

Merry Christmas to everyone

Editor's notes
Hello and welcome to the first edition of the Transport Journal.

We hope you find it useful and informative, and your comments are really appreciated!


BG7 12:23, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi and thanks for subscribing to the Transport Journal. The Transport Journal was set up to inform users of spottingworld projects of the latest goings on in our projects including new processes, current big discussions, any events and some news as well as the goings on in the real transport world. We hope that this weekly newsletter can get users more involved with the community by informing users of what is going on. This will become more useful as the community grows larger.

Thanks, Tbo 157 12:33, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

All users are welcome to submit content for this newsletter, regardless of whether they are an editing volunteer, at Trains:The Transport Journal/Submit.

TSW Announcements
  • Don't forget to use the Live Chat Room - discuss stuff on real time - just click on the Live Chat icon on the left <-----
  • We now have several Workforces online, and we would like YOU to join up! See Trains:Workforces for more information.
  • You can also have a look at the Portals for the aforementioned projects!
  • Don't forget to write articles as well as maintenance. We need as much content which is unique from WP as possible.
  • Trains:RfA is now online!
PSW Announcements
  • We are now working on the Planes Main Page Redesign. Help us work on it - Click here!
Current Discussions
  • The TSW community are currently looking at ways to run bots for various activities such as archiving and updating pages.
Spotting World News
  • The next wiki to be launched has been revealed: Truck Spotting World! Add content now at Train Spotting World with the category Truck Spotting World!
Transport news and events
Events for the coming week...
  1. Slough and Windsor Railway Society Railwayana Auction - 21st December
  2. Ecclesbourne Valley Railway Santa Specials - 22nd and 23rd December

Here it is Tim. A tad late, but it'll be alright!

BG7 11:35, 27 December 2007 (UTC)


Thanks, I'll do my best to help keep things going. These past few days I've been steady hacking to get a wiki going on my Linux server at home. I wanted something offline to use for developing templates as a sort of proving grounds before I upload them. So far, not going so well. I can't seem to get the thing to parse and templates properly. So I've been hacking at the config to sort that out I must have something wrong somewhere. Oh well..

--DP67 (talk/contribs) 22:32, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Well we run this thing on a linux server with apache and stuff. I don;t think it was as easy to install as we hoped! Tim Trent Talk to me 22:42, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
It's not! LOL I've installed entire CMS sites like Nuke in minutes without any problems. This thing is being a real pain in the arse. I'm running into problems everywhere I turn. I'm about ready to pack it in and forget the whole idea. lol Was fun while it lasted but now it's getting old.
--DP67 (talk/contribs) 00:01, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Look at Special:Version. It may help. It's still a mug's game Tim Trent Talk to me 00:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

The TJ

hows part 1 of the fix?

BG7 23:40, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

ps the centralisation problem is fised in firefox etc, it's an IE thing! BG7 23:42, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes check.svg Done everything sorted! BG7 23:47, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Way to go. That was hard work! Tim Trent Talk to me 00:11, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

The Transport Journal Issue 2


Hi Tim,

Hows the TJ now?

Please leve comments on the comments page!

BG7 15:03, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Dollar Strings

No, it was no misunderstanding. When I tried it yesterday it didn't do anything. It does now though. Class91 15:30, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Then it has to have been either in your client or a misunderstanding of "reading" vs "invoking" since I reverted to the version prior to any mis-edits. There can't be any other logical explanation Tim Trent Talk to me 22:14, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Might have been my browser. Sorry. Class91 23:46, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

SpottingWorld development

Hi Tim,

This is probably for the cafe but i thought i should check first!

a)How did Trains and Planes do for revenue in 07? How mcuch more do we need for Trucks to come online?

In order to get sufficient server power for a new wiki to come online we need the revenue to be $100 per month repeatably from the existing two wikis. We are less than a third of the way there. Really, though I've referred to it, it is better to keep specifics away from the public gaze because we may not, absolutely may not, encourage folks to click adverts in any way. That is againts Google's terms of service and will get the advertising revenue removed.
Relying on organic growth make seem painful, but it is the only safe and effective way of doing this. It creates a repeatable business model and allows us to have a direct correlation between real visits and serever requirements. If we encouraged peopkle to click, not only would that be click fraud, but, when they stopped, the revenue woudl dry up.
Id really rather keep that well away form newsletetrs etc, please.

b)Me and Tbo were discussing about the TJ, and we wondered if it's possible to have a unified login for all the wikis, meaning you only need one account and have only 1 UP (at SpotWorld)

Technically impossible. Wikipedia has the same issue.
There are authentication extensions for cross-Wiki.. At least I've seen some making such claims. But no guarantees. I have not yet looked any further than that. One thing to remember though. MediaWiki will not run any extensions unless they are absolutely stone cold rock solid. It doesn't mean it cannot be done, I'm sure it can, It's as simple as sharing the same SQL user table but just how simple, I'm not sure yet. I once figured out how to do it on a PHP-Nuke site for cross-Nuke authentication but Wiki is still new to me.
DP67 (talk/contribs)
We try very hard only to run rock solid extensions. We run extra extensions over WP, but we like them to have a track record. Sharing user tables is "ok" until you start splitting across multiple servers. We always design future proof systems. Tim Trent Talk to me 00:11, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

c)Bots: Have you tried Google's open source code thing?

Needs more info. I have no idea what you are talking about
Tim, is what they claim to be the 'Framework" for a Wikipedia bot. Very vague description so far. I have not had the chance to dissect it on my Linux box as I only just found it. I will take a look at it later tonight. I'm assuming (again remember the true meaning of assume, 'make an ass out of you and out of me' lol) it's the basic framework for just about any functioning bot which would include a vandal bot, archive bot, etc.. But I'm not sure yet. It's been quite some time since I've fooled with Perl or Python but I'll give it a look see and see if I can figure it out. Once learned I sometimes pick up things fast even though I haven't used it in a while, but no promises.
DP67 (talk/contribs) 23:51, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
The answer is to go ahead and try. On a limited dataset! Tim Trent Talk to me 00:11, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

d)Content: Can Bernd start up his copying bot to grab images?

If you mean "can it?" the answer is that it can. But it always needs a lot of work before it will run reliably. Wikipedia changes.


BG7 15:10, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Answers interleaved above. Tim Trent Talk to me 23:09, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Leaching bot

We do really want to diverge from Wikipedia. We can't simply be a copy of that site. I am against it unless there is a "rescue mission" such as we ran for TtTE Tim Trent Talk to me 23:13, 1 January 2008 (UTC)


My real life is suffering. I will look in but not take an active part for a few days unless in emergency. {{wikibreak}} could do with an edit or two! Tim Trent Talk to me 00:54, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

The Transport Journal Issue 3

{{Archive box}} has arrived

Hi Tim. Finally got round to archiving my talk page, so {{Archive box}} has now migrated from WP. Enjoy!

EdJogg 13:27, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


You have mail. Class91 20:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually you don't. For some reason it stayed in my outbox and when I tried to send it, I got an error message. Anyway, I basically asked you where the policy page, currently in DP67s user space should go and if all the policies should be on one page to keep things simple. Thanks. Class91 21:31, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
A decision needs to be made. "Is this TSW only, or will ot relate to all the SW wikis?" Once we answer that then we know where to put it. Make sense? Tim Trent Talk to me 22:55, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

The Transport Journal Issue 4

Please enjoy - sorry about being nearly a week late! It has been ready since Monday, but i've been really busy! Thanks, BG7 18:27, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

The Transport Journal Issue 5

Enjoy the latest issue of the Journal, Tim! --DalekX 17:23, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

The Transport Journal Issue 6

Right, here's the newest issue of the Tranport Journal, Tim. --DalekX 21:33, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


Hi Tim,

Several things! Most are outlined here, but a main one relevant here too is is it possible to have different skins, such as those at WP/Wikia? Or just monobook?


BG7 15:18, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I've been reassembling my life! The income tax and VAT deadlines loomed :)
Skins. You may not believe this but the skins are not css based. If they were it might be easy, but they are a shedload of work. Loads of php files and a heap of standard MW mal-designed trash.
Can you bulletise the other items? I am still really tight for time
Tim Trent Talk to me 22:32, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

The Transport Journal Issue 7

Got the latest issue of the Transport Journal for you, Tim! --DalekX 23:14, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The Transport Journal

Hi Tim. Can I ask for your comments at Trains:Station Cafe (Left Luggage)#Transport Journal. Comments for the TJ are valuable and we are lacking comments so far. If readers are not satisfied or there are too few readers, it needs a change. Thanks. Tbo 12:59, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Transport Journal Issue 8

Sorry for the lateness! My week's been crazy! --DalekX 02:42, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Welcome back

Hi Tim. Glad to see you're back, as it's been rather quiet round here lately.

I saw your message, and I don't think I'd use the word 'flourish'. It has certainly continued, and there have been a number of new users join, most of whom seem to have not edited anything - which is possibly something to be looked into? But you will see from the Recent Changes that, with the exception of Slambo and his numerous portal-related edits, not much has been happening (several days there have been zero edits!!) - to the extent that the birthday passed without further comment. And someone even tried to dump the Transport Journal on me!

Nevertheless, we're still going...

EdJogg 14:10, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

It will all get there, though. I'm confident of it. It's exam time for BG7 at present I think. Tim Trent Talk to me 14:56, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Ah-ha! that would explain why it's been so quiet :o) -- EdJogg 17:37, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

The Transport Journal Issue 9

Here's TJ #9, Tim. Enjoy, --S.C.Rf 17:20, 6 March 2008 (UTC)


Hi Tim. Sorry I haven't been here for a while as I have been quite busy but I thought Id just drop by to check on how the wikis going after a few months. Looking at the recent changes, it doesnt seem to be too active compared to a few months ago. Thanks. Tbo 11:41, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

I think we had some serious server issues which prevented some edits for committing to the database. We've now migrated ti a new server AND today just changed to a faster web environment on that server. That ought to help. Tim Trent Talk to me 15:49, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Fan Art - policy from Commons

I have been hauled-up (at WP) for my use of 'derivative works' to identify the WP:THOMAS articles, etc (specifically, a picture of a dressed-up Thomas loco on a heritage railway). In the process, I was pointed to the Commons page about derivative works (and copyright thereof) and noticed this page about "Fan Art". I wondered whether the latter, especially, might apply to the Fan Fiction we have here, and whether it is anything for you to worry about...

EdJogg 13:33, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Interesting. If I précis the article somewhat, isn't it about pictures and only pictures? If not then I fear we may have some sort of issue, but not sure what the extent is. Tim Trent Talk to me 14:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
It was the line "...a short story written about a character shown in a movie is a derivative work and subject to the movie's copyright..." which prompted me. Hence this presumably covers the Fan Fiction here, and certainly the thousands of derivative videos at YouTube. Now whether any company would be seriously worried about this sort of non-commercial stuff, which after all only fosters more enthusiasm for the company's products, is another matter. I would be inclined to leave it 'as is' until someone complains, but then it doesn't affect me directly, does it?
Tricky. EdJogg 09:13, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
My instincts say that it is well to be aware of this. I know of an incident a few years ago where a kid in the USA wrote fanfic about the band Hanson. I think the genre is calls "Slash Fiction", though it has little to do with slashing! I understand that lawyers got very heavy with the kid because they objected to the content, rather than the fiction existing at all.
But none, I hope, of our fan fiction involves wishing to spend times in flagrante dilecto with Thomas or Friends. Thus I feel the problem is unlikely to arise.
Should it arise then we will strip it out of the site at once.
Tim Trent Talk to me 11:01, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
I think this is a sensible precautionary stance to take. I'll leave it to you to decide whether any of the policy pages need amending accordingly. EdJogg 09:03, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
More than happy to take suggestions :) To me it looks more like "I have bigger lawyers than you do" stuff, and bluster and bullying and threat. Tim Trent Talk to me 09:36, 10 July 2008 (UTC)


Er Hi Tim! Can you do me a favor please. Can you make me a TSW admin becuse there is no way I can make myself an admin on this thing. Well you can make me an adim becuse you're an admin and you know how you do it. Thank you very mutch. C45Te 17:40, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Before we had a small community here I would have done it like a shot Though I have not "patrolled" your edits etc. Have a look at Trains:Adminship (much easier than "the other place"), then at Trains:Applications for adminship (ah, you have!) and I suspect it will be carried "nem con".
Tim Trent Talk to me 19:45, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes!C45Te 13:01, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Other SWs...

Hey Tim!

Any ideas when the next SWs are coming online? Trains has been "on track" FF wise without the "regulars" (now i've got over my MW headaches and am successfully running a combination of Wikia's version and 1.14alpha of MW (nicknamed... 2.0 (at least for my use!)) and ive notice that Planes has "taken off". Any ideas when SSW will come "on stream", when TSW(2) will "arrive" and BSW will "land" (sorry, couldnt resist them!).

I hope to me more active soon!


BG7 17:54, 22 April 2008 (UTC) 17:58, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Bernd has a mighty workload at present. He should be out from ujnder that in 6 weeks or so, and we can look at it then. I bet you;re looking forward to the news school year (not!) Tim Trent Talk to me 18:25, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Yeh... haha. Not back till Monday though ;). Cool, well if you need any help, i like to think of myself as a bit of a MW expert/guru now after a successful (local) installation of my "hacked" MW version just so i could use Wikia's Monaco skin... not something i reccomend and the moment i put it on the web it broke... so back to the drawing board!
BG7 17:54, 22 April 2008 (UTC) 18:29, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
I have no huge grasp of the technical constraints, but I know that setting up an instance of MW requires server access. Nice as you are and trustworthy as you are, Bernd has locked the server down to make it as near a citadel as he can, and I doubt he will release the ignition keys.
However, running bots is not the same as having server access. It may be that, once the wikis are created you might want to run a bot to bring a limited selection of articles across from GFDL (etc) licensed places complete with pictures. That can as easily be run form a client as a server.
Obviously one tests this on a single article (etc) prior to unleashing it, and one runs it at a slow and steady rate (WP has rules to limit leech rates) to avoid compromising either the source or the target server.
Again I am going to defer to Bernd here. He carries the can for ensuring that it works at all!
Tim Trent Talk to me 18:34, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Sure, no worries ;). It's you wiki - just thought i'd let you know ;). I can probably run a bot off my own server thinking about it... but im not yet that advanced to code one! BG7 17:54, 22 April 2008 (UTC) 18:39, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Well, it is "our wiki" but it is "my server", and that is the difference. We run quite a large and complex operation from it, with many different sites and domains. Thatis why we keep it locked down.  :) Tim Trent Talk to me 18:47, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
Yeh course i'm hearing you loud and clear ;) BG7 17:54, 22 April 2008 (UTC) 19:03, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Re:What just happened on Wikipedia?

It's not true. I swear. I'm not a sock. The only time I socked was in my RfA which was a mistake and I came open about.

The user has a thing against me and has hacked my account. I was blocked before for the same reason but a CU showed i was innocent... I have no idea...

BG7 17:54, 22 April 2008 (UTC) 08:11, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

New users...

This has been bothering me for a while. Monitoring the Recent Changes reveals a steady stream of new user accounts being created, this weekend in particular. Yet (almost) none of them make any edits. Why? (I realise this is a somewhat rhetorical question!)

As there's no need to register in order to access the site, why bother registering if you aren't going to edit? It makes me wonder whether there is something about the account registering process that puts people off. Is the 'welcome' script too big, for example?

Any thoughts?

EdJogg 11:20, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

it happened right from the start. I think it is just one of those weird things. Some register with invalid email addresses, too. Tim Trent Talk to me 23:26, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Are they completely invalid though? I have a personal domain-name email address, which is bounced on to my ISP email address. For most situations this is fine, but certain servers (mostly forum sites, but also, annoyingly, our church office!) refuse to send the email because of its routing (I presume). The recipient has no idea that this is the problem, as they just never receive the email. I have learned this the hard way and now have to use an alternative email for forum registrations just in case. (Fortunately I have never had a problem with any on-line shopping or finance sites.)
I don't remember now, but when you register here, do you need to wait for an activation email, code, etc...?
EdJogg 09:41, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
Our email server often reports hard bounces for the activation message. MW software creates the account come hell or high water. MW is a bizarre system. Tim Trent Talk to me 10:07, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
So we DO require an activation code, which is sent by email? Is it possible then that these new users are never activating their accounts because they do not receive the email allowing them to do so? (In which case we need to do something about this!)
EdJogg 10:46, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
What do you suggest? Our email system meets, as far as we can tell, all email standards. Tim Trent Talk to me 13:13, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
As I don't know why my own email address is incompatible with certain sites, I cannot give a technical answer. The address is not checked by these sites at registration, the problem only comes to light when the email is not received.
What I would expect, as a new user, is appropriate advice such as "An activation email will be sent to you within (x) hours. If you do not receive an email from us, please return to this page for further assistance..." Then lower down on the activation page: "If you did not receive an activation email, please double-check that your email address is entered correctly. If the address is correct it is possible that it is not permitted [under the xxx security restrictions imposed by the WIki software], in which case please try an alternative address. If you are still having problems, please email xxxxx for further assistance."
Something like that, anyway...
Having typed that lot, I've just noticed that my email address here is for my domain I wonder if it works...?
EdJogg 14:29, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
OK, tried sending myself an email (didn't realise it was deactivated!) but haven't received anything yet, although that may not be a fair test. Tried logging out, but email is also disabled for unregistered users, so I couldn't. Could you try emailing me please?
EdJogg 14:40, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
Test email sent. Tim Trent Talk to me 14:49, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
I asked it to copy me. Mine arrived, but obviously uses the same email scheme. Yours OUGHT to arrive, but may be in your junk folder. Tim Trent Talk to me 14:53, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
Yes, it arrived (and I replied to you too). (I rather suspected that I wouldn't be able to email myself!) Pity, in a way, as I was hoping that you might be able to help me work out why my domain email sometimes doesn't work elsewhere! EdJogg 15:04, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

The actual process

I have found that the activation code is irrelevant. Pictures follow to show you.

Stage 1


Stage 2


Stage 3


So it seems that these users are just "register and forget" registrations. Wonder WHY! Tim Trent Talk to me 14:49, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I think that's what started this thread in the first place! EdJogg 15:07, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
It is probably a weird fact of life. Elsewhere I run a forum and people join it and never post. But they are able to read it without joining, and have always been able to. They just join. So maybe the world is full of joiners. Tim Trent Talk to me 15:15, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Great minds think alike...?

Regarding new user 'Berkshire1'...

I was thinking of saying 'hello' too, but first I went to WP to find the article, and then to find out what a 'berk' was (apparently, 'Berkshire' is the name for a 2-8-4 configuration) - then I came back to the article and on pressing 'edit' discovered that Wikipedia had followed me!

It is a sorry state of affairs, isn't it, when we are both pouncing on the rare new users who actually add some non fan fiction content! :o) Let's hope they keep coming back though.

EdJogg 10:37, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, yes, but the TtTE area brings us visits and advert clicks. I often wonder just how a community grows. Do we have the right vehicle? I can't see why not, but... Tim Trent Talk to me 10:44, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

New users - 2

Just a thought. Do you employ any kind of CAPTCHA technology during the account creation process? If not, could it be that these unused accounts are being created by bots?

EdJogg 13:27, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

We deployed the basic CAPTCHA - not a particularly robust example, but "adequate". What I don't understand is what a bot operator would get out of it. All links are rel="nofollow", and they don't edit the site anyway.
I think we have a mystery. I wonder if WP is the same?
Tim Trent Talk to me 16:18, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
From my work at Wikipedia's ACC area, I would say that they do have the same problem. You may have noticed in my recent CU that all the accounts I created had come up - hardly any of which have ever edited, even though they get 2 emails confirming that their account is made (one from the interface ACC use and one with a password for them).
Hope this helps ;)
Cheers, BG7 17:54, 22 April 2008 (UTC) 19:05, 7 November 2008 (UTC)