User talk:Tim Trent/Archive 2

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Talk archives for User:Tim Trent (current talk page)
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Shining Time Station

Tim, I've got a qestion for you. We want Train Spotting World to expand, right? I was wondering if I could put up synopsis for episodes of Shining Time Station that I've either seen or remember well? I've already started with some of the 1-hour specials, but I thought I'd ask your opinion before I continued. Thanks! --Dalek X 17:21, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

go for it Tim Trent 20:15, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. Also, for most of the characters, the only sources I have for the info I write is my recolection of the series. Fortunately, I've been watching the tapes of the show that I have. However, what should I put down for sources if the only sources I have are the tapes? Thanks!--Dalek X 21:15, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Use {{cite video}}. Then cite the video with pleasure. Don't forget to uses the <ref></ref> and {{reflist}} mechanism Tim Trent 06:26, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Right, I'll do that. However, there is a difficulty with 1 thing. Most of the tapes I have are the 1-hour specials which were never officially on video, I taped them. Also, a few I'm going to write about I found on the internet. The question is, how can I cite the eps that I taped and that I found on the internet? --Dalek X 01:00, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
More difficult, and requires citing the episode. If you pop over to Wikipedia you can see the list of templates. We have copied some of them, but others may not be present. Copy any that you need (but bring everything with them) and use one of those. Other than that I think you will need to use your initiative. Tim Trent 06:51, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
It looks like {{cite episode}} is the one you'll need. Tim Trent 07:10, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
We've started at Trains:Citation templates to bring relevant WP templates over. There is some work to do on making thme TSW templates and not Wikipedia templates. Tim Trent 07:47, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Interwiki to WP !!????

When did this happen?

I just copied the 'Archival templates' category from WP, and noticed that 'archive' was a live link. So, out of curiosity I tried [[WP:Traction engine|Traction engine]] and discovered that I got a direct link to 'Traction engine'.

Is this something new, or have I just missed it all these months?

Could you have a nose about and see if there's a similar hidden link to Commons?

EdJogg 08:46, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

http://train.spottingworld.com/Special:Interwiki shows you the list. We didn't remove any when we set it up. Tim Trent 08:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
So, what does the table mean? If there is a '1' in the 'local' column, that means that the link is active, right? So, there's a (potential) link to Commons, which would allow almost direct access to the images there... Is it easy to change?
EdJogg 09:56, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Not entirely sure. I see the Commons link is a 0 at present. That means that [[Image:Drawbar trailer coupling.jpg|thumb|right]] ought not to display ecept as a redlink:
File:Drawbar trailer coupling.jpg
, because it is a Commons picture.
[[Commons:Image:Drawbar trailer coupling.jpg|thumb|right]] displays "differently!" as thumb|right though
I guess we'll try to see what happens if the 0 is made into a 1
OK, the definitive and unintelligible answer is http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Interwiki and the right answer is "This is a monster that almost no-one understands, so we don't dare touch it". Only a "superbureaucrat" can edit the table and edits are done by deletion and re-add. And it's hell on wheels to get right. Since it ain't broke, we don't dare change it Tim Trent 10:25, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
I guess you need to keep your eye out for a suitable Guru who might be prepared to help you, the problem is knowing where to ask. Adding database URL fields in binary sounds great fun (not!), but I love the flag name they use 'EnableScaryTransclusions', definitely thought-up by a software bod!!
EdJogg 12:56, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Mediawiki software is terrifying, badly designed, poorly imoplemented, and hangs together by a thread. What's even scarier is the WP uses Mysql,itself an "amusing" and limited product. We, by contrast, use PostgreSQL which has a huge set of inbuilt advantages. But tamper with the software and it bites you in the buttocks. Tim Trent 15:31, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
Is w: another inter-wiki prefix? It's not on the list, but I noticed it all over the usage templates I've just copied. I did think about changing the instances to 'wp:', since that works, but decided against. (Would be useful if a redirect might work, but I suspect that is wishful thinking!)
EdJogg 09:09, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
The answer is Toyah Wilcox, singing "It's a Mystery". When we set the wikis up we had immense trouble with interwiki links! They just do what they want! We had a period where the links we set up stopped working because we added new ones! Tim Trent 10:01, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Various...

H Tim,

Is there a quick way of importing lots of tram-related images etc over to here from WP, and also, can I create a TSW equivelant of a WikiProject? For Trams, Steam, Diesel, Electric, American etc... (no need for train - its the whole project!). Also, can I create a category called Non-Train or similar, for all the stuff that's needed, but not directly related (cities, places etc). Thanks, Bluegoblin7 11:03, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

If you look further up the page, you'll see that I discovered TSW has an easy interwiki link to WP ([[wp:articlename]]). Hence, rather than import non-railway/transport pages here, it would be better to interwiki only essential links. However, I think Tim would agree that we don't want to link to too many WP articles because once a user has followed the link they are no longer browsing TSW!!
As for projects, there is no concept of them here yet. I think they just exist in a pseudo-namespace, in the same way that 'FanFic' now does -- they are distinguished by an article naming convention rather than anything more technical -- so there's nothing to stop you developing a 'policy' for projects (including working out what to call them here!). I think the biggest problem you'll have, to start with, is finding anyone to collaborate with...
EdJogg 07:20, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
The interwiki issue is complex. Let's start with something unashamedly commercial. Our server is entirely supported by revenue from the people who click the adverts we display on the site. We don;t get that many clicks on the adverts, but we get just enough to pay the costs of the server. If people leave the site on an interwiki link then they can't see our adverts any more and we lose the possibility of revenue. If they leave by an advert we assume that they have no further interest in our site and have simply gone, which is ok. So we prefer things associated with TSW to be on TSW.
Logic says "import anything you wish, as long as you use {{from Wikipedia}} to attribute it (their rules and thus ours). We really only import things that are "in danger" such as the Thomas items when threatened with mass deletion.
Projects are interesting. Even on Wikipedia they are in a pseudo namespace. The namespace "Project:" is a reserved namespace everywhere, and using that as an article prefix would place the article in that reserved namespace - an error. So I suggest a naming convention be designed by you guys to suit your needs. Just don't use "Project:" as the prefix. I also don't think it needs to be "Trains:Project:", but you could choose (EG) "TSWProject:" and use this as the pseudo namespace article prefice exactly like the "FanFic:" prefix. We looked at creating a real namespace, initial;y for FanFic: but decided there was, as usual with mediawiki software, too much scope for disaster.
I think you can see that we want the minimum possible set of rules and the maximum possible navigability. And we want our users and admins to decide how the place operates. I really only "care" about adherence to the standards we have created together, plus legal liability for copyright infringements etc. And I obviously care that the adverts pay for the server, because that's the only way the place is able to be online and grow.
Tim Trent
Further to this, can I create some of the Userboxes from WP? Also, the main page could be organised a bit better. May I have a fiddle? (there must be a sandbox somewhere...) Bluegoblin7 14:23, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
We try very hard not to import too much with the import bot, primarily because the process is error-prone. It can be done, but a lot has to go right for it to work well.
The main page may be reorganised with pleasure. I am not a graphic designer :) Sandboxes can be created "just like that" pretty much anywhere. And Infoboxes may be created ad lib. Tim Trent 21:54, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
EdJogg, I will try and think of something then: It was mainly for Trams, as I have discussed with Tim a possible split - get the ball rolling a bit maybe?
Tim, I will have a look at the main page in a bit - will either be at Main Page/Sandbox or User:Bluegoblin7/Sandbox.
Finally, to either, do we fully protect any pages, or just when they are vandalised? You know to stop just anyone editing thme (someone might get their account up to a high enough status so they can edit semi-protected?)
Cheers,
Bluegoblin7 16:34, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Main Page - the things I would like to keep on the main page are a video or perhaps 2, a decent picture or two, and anything properly informational about us. Other than that, frankly, don't even use a sandbox unless you are not sure what you are doing. Reversion is easy if you hate it.
Page Protection - I have been a bit lax about it, but in general I like to leave articles open and heavyweight templates and policies etc fully protected. Everyone so far is working individually, and that is both good (speed) and not so good (lack of consensus), but we have not hit any huge issues so far. We will hit them as we grow and we attract more active editors, but that will happen over time, and then we can start to work on a consensus based environment. Until then just take good decisions that you can justify if anyone asks you. Treat the place as if you were looking after it while "the boss" was on vacation :), not that we really have a boss.
The main thing is to have fun and ensure that everyone who comes here can have fun, but all while doing no harm.
Tim Trent 16:46, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Ok Tim,
Just thought i'd check - you know, dont want to break anything! (As for some reason I keep doing on my site!).
Cheers,
Bluegoblin7 18:34, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
the one thing our "skin" hates is <div> tagas withough </div> closing tags. And it currently does not support <imagemap> which we may solve by tmorow when we finr the right mediawiki extension. I'd love to say it's unbreakable, but mediawiki softwate is truly appalling and we just plain don't know! Tim Trent 19:03, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok Tim - it's just getting the time to do somehing tho - my own site takes up all me time atm!

Also, jst thought i'd mention summat im doin on my site: Tram/Train of the Year - you can get there from the homepage. Also, maybe you want to do it with me?

Bluegoblin7 19:09, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Tim,

Thought the changes were quite radical, so I have done it in the sandbox - can change it if no good, or jst delete it! Please have a look. Bluegoblin7 19:50, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Page Protection

As this page is acting a bit like 'Village Pump' at present...

Page protection has been a bit hit-and-miss so far. Most of the time, the pages themselves have not been protected - unless one or other of us has got fed up with a particularly nauseous editor! Templates and categories (?) often have protected status at WP, and this is obviously lost on re-creation here. I try to remember to protect them as I go, although as Tim has said, we have not yet had need to do so. In the case of these, I usually try to think how many pages might be affected by a vandalised template, and protect accordingly (usually straight to sysop level, on the basis that further changes are unlikely!)

EdJogg 22:59, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Village pumpery

We do need one. We just never created one yet. See Trains:Community Portal. That's because we haven't chosen a name yet. "Roundhouse", maybe? "Station Cafe"? Tim Trent 06:12, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Both of those suggestions are very good Tim - I have suggested Mess Room over on the community portal page.
Will have another look at the main page, with a more WP format - is it ok so far though - as in, wording?
Bluegoblin7 10:18, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Non-free images

Hi. I'm having some difficulty categorising Cat:Non-free content, which is an orphan.

Also, the non-free images are automatically shunted into Cat:All non-free media (rather than its logical child, Cat:Non-free images) which cannot be (properly) added to Cat:Images by copyright status. Hence this category relationship is also missing.

Every time I try to tackle this I get distracted (eg by work!) so any help would be welcome!

EdJogg 23:45, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Will have a look, but am delayed by a death in the family. It is likely to be the license template. Tim Trent 00:13, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
We seem to be starting with {{No rationale}} which transcludes {{Non-free media}} which includes Cat:All non-free media. What I have not yet discovered is whether {{No rationale}} is an automatic inclusion when the image is uploaded, or whether it is applied manually. If manually then I think we can split it into non image media and images with a pair of new templates based around it.
Will now have a look at Cat:Non-free content.
Tim Trent 07:01, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
I have had a go at Cat:Non-free content, and caused a question as well as categorised it. It has highlighted some naming inconsistencies which I am too tired to even attempt at present. Tim Trent 07:12, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into this, but make sure you keep focussed on your priorities. In the Grand Scheme of Things, TSW matters are utterly inconsequential when you have yourself and your family to consider at this time. This stuff will wait...

EdJogg 10:10, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Image rename?

You remember that the import process sometimes corrupts image filenames? Well, I have located the correct name for one of them (found while looking at your cat changes!). Is there a way of renaming the image without downloading and uploading again?

EdJogg 09:44, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Not that anyone has found. I think I have mentioned before that Mediawiki software sucks? We're stuck with d/l, del, re u/l I fear. But so is WP, so it's not all bad! If they had fewer willing sheep and more decent developers... But it's so bad we don;t dare apply any software upgrades unless it gets really important!
I have sudden "Category blasts" looking at the wanted categories list. That job will never be done I fear! Tim Trent 10:24, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

New Main Page...

Hi Tim,

I've started blitzing the new main page recently.

I've copied the WP page as a starting point, but I need a tad of help:

  • I've protected it, cos its quite complex - dont want people playing! But what's the fully protected template thingy?
  • On the current page theres a list of cats - where can I get to these?
  • Do any of the WP pages listed exist here yet? Or shall i just create them (with TSW headings of course!!)

Cheers,

Bluegoblin7 19:23, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

In Tim's absence...
  • 'Fully protected' means that only admins can edit it. Remember that the template is there to indicate that the page has been protected. Applying the template does not itself protect the page!
  • Anything red-linked probably won't exist yet. Be sparing in what you create, lot's of WP will not be necessary/appropriate here, and remember that things such as the DYK and daily news have teams of people keeping them up-to-date. If you do create anything, usual method is to grab the WP source and adjust it for its new home - this may entail copying more items (templates mostly) and creating categories. If in doubt, ask!
EdJogg 14:20, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Cheers EdJogg,
I have protected the page fully, but just wondered what the template was (Tim has made me an admin)
Ok. I will create any pages I think we need - I am editing everything I can, just to make it less WPish and moe TSWish!
I found the temp, and have copied them in! It might need a new temp though, cos its in a diff format.
Finally, I will probably add most of the current stuff in with a WP format (only the homepage, no more!), but just wondered if we wanted DYK, Selected Article/Pic etc?
Cheers,
Bluegoblin7 15:28, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Features such as DYK, Featured Pic, etc, are all very well if you have people updating them. I don't have time to maintain features on the main page, and I'm not sure there's enough other editors to support them either (yet). I would prefer, at this stage, to see a Main Page without any features that would highlight the fact that it is not updated regularly. If you take that as your initial brief, that should help you work out what to include. (Note - I think the current Main Page probably fails this at present, although I haven't looked recently.) EdJogg 22:10, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Ok, will do. Will probably keep featured video and top pics, as is currently there, but focus it more around getting people to sign up and/or edit!
Finally, do we have a name for the "Village Pump"? I would like to link it up when poss! (Plus, maybe change the name on the side when we get one!)
Keep on commenting please! Will do it when I have chance, and you can add it here or on the place's talk page!
Also, in future, the sandbox could be used for new changes to the main page.
Cheers,
Bluegoblin7 14:54, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi Tim,
The page is very nearly ready to go live... just a matter of time.
But, I was wondering if any of the redlinks (except tempaltes etc) actually exist yet, but under a different name? If so, could you please correct them!
Also, Do we have a name for the Village Pump? I am happy to go with whatever, but would like to link it in!
Cheers,
Bluegoblin7 19:41, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

(reset indent) I've had a look, and it looks a great improvement on the thing we put together very fast at the start of the project. I've bluelinked one area, but I think the rest are "to come". The VP has no name yet. I really don't want to impose my own personality on the site. I favour Round House, but inly engines go into one. So I am no further forward there. Excellent job by the way. Tim Trent 19:58, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi Tim, As far as i can tell, the new page is complete. There are some redlinks, but I am unsure as to what to put here! Please fill it out, and we can launch it whenever, or launch it now and chnage the links later. Also, when we copy it across, shall we protect it? It' sthe templates that change not the main page. Cheers, Bluegoblin7 13:45, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
I suggest you copy it over as soon as you like. The sister wiki is, currently Plane Spotting World and I think the interwiki prefix is swplane so [[swplane:Main page]] is Plane Spotting World.
Semi-protected ought to be fine unless we get a lot of vandalism. Then a decision just needs to be taken. After all, we can roll back easily.
I'm dealing with the aftermath of my mother's death at present, so am only doing "relaxing things" between a huge workload.
Tim Trent 22:15, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi Tim,
Don't worry about when you can reply! I don't mind, your needed elsewhere. I know excalty how youre feeling. I lost my mum in February.
PAGE IS OVER!!!
Just a quicky: I have created an account on plane... can i have sysops? I'll also work on a main page similar to here there.
Cheers,
Bluegoblin7 22:30, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Planes sysops status is done :) We need a champion or two there. It is not yet at all successful Tim Trent 22:48, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

(reset indent) Ok Tim. I have been having a look over there... nearly every page needs de-wikifying, so will do that and a main page. Also, when the next wikis come online, can you let me know? I'll create an account, get sysopsed, and make it great! Cheers, Bluegoblin7 22:53, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Will do. We'll need a new server for more wikis. These things drain horsepower like it's going out of fashion. That means we need advertising revenue from Trains to double at least and planes to hit the current Trains level. It all takes elapsed time it seems. Tim Trent 22:55, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
O well, better to have 2 excellent wikis and wait for the rest, than lots of not-so-good ones.
Also... a q... What does the exclamation mark mean in the watchlist? Bluegoblin7 22:58, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


The "!" is to do with recent changes patrolling. Admins see it, I think normal folks don't. I don't find it much use, but, if we had a flock of RC Patrollers, one perosn marking it as patrolled saves the rest from needing to look. Oh, you may want to look at your user page :) Tim Trent 23:01, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
(edit conflict)
Cheers for the Barnstar... More to add to my to-do list now.. create a TSW barnstar! Is there a page for this tyoe of thing?...Bluegoblin7 23:02, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Not yet. I just grabbed it from WP. I was thinking of a steam drving wheel for TSW, and a prop for PSW, but artist I am not! I wil grab the WP barnstars page, and copy it in. We can then modify it
Ok. Can i now suggest we start a new thread... it's off-topic now! Bluegoblin7 23:07, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

A Proposition...

Hi Tim,

As you know, I have my own site, and we have just begun 2 new features: Tram and Train of the Year. I was wondering if anyone at TSW would be interested, and if so, then maybe the event could be run as a joint thing, to boost nominations/votes? I would place a link back here aswell etc.

I'm sure you'll say it's fine, but I don't want to do anything stupid. Dont want you to block me or remove my Adminship!

Cheers,

Bluegoblin7 20:42, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

All initiatives that add value to TSW as well as other special interest sites are fine :) Tim Trent 22:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
Ok Tim, I have added a bit! Where can I get the TSW logo from though to put on me site? Cheers Bluegoblin7 15:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Logically it has to be an image uploaded somewhere onto the site! I'll have to ask Bernd! Tim Trent 17:33, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
It is here Tim Trent 10:23, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Copying from external sources such as Wikipedia

Oh, I see. TobytheTramEngine 21:04, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Other

(How orginal a title?) Ok... Just thought i'd let you know, i'm also taking this moment to launch Aircraft Centre on my site. Thought to 2 sites could boost each other :D! Bluegoblin7 23:13, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Along the lines of Barnstars...If that's a challenge to make them I accept it!!! Bluegoblin7 23:20, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Game on! I ran out of steam trying to get the full WP page over. Heading 4 bed now. Long day house clearing. Tim Trent 23:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Will work on it tommorrow - i've started copying over WPs Help Pages - its much bigger than i thought it would be. Colossal! Can I start a to-do list somewhere, sort of one for admins or established users. There loads to do... Please have alook and TSWafy if u have time. But concentrate on Barnstars first (sorry if im bossing u around - its ur site - im just on a roll here. You know, trying to boost it up some more! :D!
But, for now, i'm signing off...
Bluegoblin7 00:41, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
Other 'Spotting' Wikis...Don't be in too much of a hurry to create them! TSW is only just starting to get itself properly organised, but is still not (apparently) attracting much 'general' traffic. The 'Thomas' editors have been busy (at times) quiet recently, but otherwise there's mostly just us admins doing maintenance! New wikis will require much page copying, categories, etc.
EdJogg 02:56, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
My thoughts entirely. We have to have two running as freestanding items before a third happens. Tim Trent 08:26, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
My thoughts aswell. As i've said, I will tackle TSW and PSW maintenance and refurb tasks, and over here will contribute to articles. But yes, I think for now the best way to go about it is to make these 2 great. After all, we could (i think) always start the Trams/Steam Pumps etc wikis as projects within here, and I suppose the others could be started at the main spotting world page (i still need an account there...)
Cheers,
Bluegoblin7 10:23, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
The slightly bizarre idea of companion Wikis for traction engines and 'Steam Pumps' was fall out from a discussion earlier this year as to whether non-railway steam-powered traction and other steam-powered stuff (eg museums) should be included at TRAIN-SW, or not. I have never really imagined them as separate Wikis! EdJogg 23:46, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

(reset indent) Just a quicky: sysops on http://www.spottingworld.com/Main_Page? Not sure if it's neeeded, not much on site, but if above happens?... Bluegoblin7 11:08, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

It's probably not worth it at this stage. Our thoughts om the www site are that it's a repository for policies, mainly. There's no real usage there. But if you see a need for it then let me know. Everything is up for good folk to take, shake and improve. Nothing is sacred. Well except copyright and good behaviour :) Tim Trent 19:10, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

PSW messages...

Hi Tim,

Ive left you some messages on PSW.

EdJogg, you might be useful over there for templates, maintenance etc...

Bluegoblin7 10:50, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Ahhh but you are missing one key thing -- I cannot see the point in plane spotting!! Besides, I allow myself to do far too much both here and at WP already, I don't need a third way to split my editing time!
(PS - let me qualily my first statement. Aircraft enthusiasts, fine, equivalent to railway enthusiasts such as me, no problem there. Spotters? Phooey - worse than the train equivalent. The SWRS recently visited Southall Railway Centre, and on the way back our driver (we were car-sharing) wanted to see where the spotters accumulate at Heathrow. There must have been about fifty of 'em, standing around in a car park, just down wind of all the fumes, and needing binoculars to identify the planes. Sheer madness! )
EdJogg 23:42, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
ROFLMAO But I did go and stand under the last ever Concorde take-off at LHR. Tim Trent 23:46, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Thescreamingsponge is ticketsplease!

Mr. Trent, I just want to tell you that Thescreamingsponge is me, ticketsplease! I have a new user and a new leaf on this website. I will be starting a blog soon and just want you to know I am not new, I am ticketsplease but with a new name and a coming soon blog. Can you do me a favor? Can you tell bluegoblin7 and some other users that Thescreamingsponge is the new ticketsplease? And a have another favor, can you teach me how to upload pictures on my account page? Once I wanted to upload a Thomas videogame picture and a World War II picture with bad words. Thanks. --Thescreamingsponge 18:22, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

They both come here from time to time, of, you can leave a message on their talk page, too. Welcome back whatever clothes you are wearing :)
Now, picture upload is easy. Left hand margin has "Upload File. So far so good. You browse for the file on your computer and, most important, give it a licence because copyright is very important indeed.
How do you choose a licence? It's easy if you own the copyright. You choose to release the image into the public domain, and choose the type of licence you want. Look at Trains:Image copyright tags to see what there is available. there are links which describe the features each licence has.
Please do not upload images where other people own the copyright unless you can prove that they have released the image into the public domain. We're just like Wikipedia over copyright violations because it;s illegal to act against it.
Does that help?
Tim Trent 20:30, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism...

Hi Tim,

I noticed you rvd a lot of vandalism yesterday. The user has been blocked, but there was one (User:0, that wasn't - they moved the main page, shall I block them? Also, maybe we should now fully protect the main page, and semi the temps linking into it?

What do you think?

  • sigh* I hate vandals...

Bluegoblin7 11:22, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Oddly User:0 is blocked, but there is a mediawiki quirk that shows it in one place but not the other.
I think definitely semi the templates. It was a flurry form one user who was being a jerk. I blocked the first one in flight and s/he then created the second, somehow. But there is a bizarre "autoblock" (see w:Wikipedia:Autoblock) that caught the unpleasant person, too. I got the second one a few moments later.
Do we need to fully protect the main paage? On reflection, we do. So I'll go and do it. Leaving the templates to you.
Tim Trent 12:03, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

User list...

Hi Tim,

Looking through Special:Listuser, quite a few of the users on there look as if they are unused. Some are blocked also. Is there a way of sorting this out, i.e. something next to default/blocked users or deleting unused/blocked ones?

Cheers,

Bluegoblin7 16:11, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Help pages...

Hi Tim,

As you may have noticed, I have created a vast help section, still to be finished. A lot won't be needed until we are quite big, but could you please have a look and just check the links etc (don;t worry about red links: I still need to change them!). Cheers, Bluegoblin7 17:09, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

the main thing was
http://train.spottingworld.com/w/index.php which needed to read
http://train.spottingworld.com/wiki/index.php
Will look more later, but I fixed that one Tim Trent 23:01, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Ok. Just either let me know or change it! Bluegoblin7 19:52, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

My Thomas userbox

Oh, hi, Tim Trent,

I would like you to get my Thomas userbox out from the crowd. Are you able to do that? --S.C.Ruffeyfan 19:02, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Tell me what you mean. Then I can tell you if it can be done :) Tim Trent 19:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

What I mean is that every Thomas fan should have one:)--S.C.Ruffeyfan 19:12, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

That's easy. see who is editing TtTE articles and let them know the userbox exists :) Use their talk pages. Tim Trent 19:31, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

The Welcome message

Hi Tim,

Where is this located? I would like to add the Station Cafe to it, aswell as re-write bits, it currently just reads as if it has had bits added onto it! (Which it has)

Cheers,

Bluegoblin7 19:53, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

It is findable from Special:Allmessages I hope :) Tim Trent 20:04, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Hmm. No it isn't. There's A welcome message but not the way Bernd created this thing. I'll have to ask him! I always forget where the thing is! Tim Trent 20:08, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Got it: It's here you may or may not have editing rights, though. Tim Trent 21:02, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Various...

Hi Tim,

Various things:

  1. Please have a look at my talk page regarding a helpme tag!
  2. What bots do we want? I can't find any codes, so I ahve contacted the owners of Shadowbot and Miszabot! AWB might be useful...
  3. How is everything coming along help/SC(station cafe) wise?
  4. Maybe soon I can get to work on some "proper" articles rather than maintenance
  5. Sometime I can mark edits as patrolled, sometimes not -- is this MediaWiki software?

Cheers,

Bluegoblin7 00:48, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Probably not the right use of helpme but I do see what you mean. I will every time I have time. :)
We can't use any bots that use IRC as a communications mechanism. So that means the Cluebot stuff for antivandal work is out. Itls a restriction of our data centre, regrettably. I've never used AWB, so no idea.
Again the help area is a matter of time. There is a ready made help area over at Mediawiki you muight want to look at. Found it last night
Do dovide your time to work on "real" articles as well. Maintenance is a thankless task done in isolation
No idea about the patrolled articles thing.
Tim Trent 07:21, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Userboxes & Workforce

Tim, I was wondering, how do you make a userbox? Because, I'd like to make a userbox for Workforce:Shining Time Station and Workforce:Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends. Also, would you like to join any of the Workforces? So far, I think we have four: Shining Time, Thomas, Workforce:Trams and Workforce:Fan Fiction. Thanks! --Dalek X 22:00, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Userboxes are easy. Go to Userboxes and copy the code of the one you like best. Create it as a new one (just like the one you copied).
When happy, put it into the table in Userboxes
I kind of have time to potter rather than join a workforce. I'll add value where i can, but I can't commit to particular projects
Tim Trent talk to me 22:06, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

RWS Userbox

Oh, Tim Trent, with the RWS userbox, could you use a railway series pic of Thomas for it? Thanks, --S.C.Ruffeyfan 10:50, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Anyone can. You can :) Just replace the picture name with another one that suits you. Tim Trent Talk to me 19:39, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Don't hold your breath, but...

...today I discovered that our Integration Team have started using a Mediawiki-based wiki!! Dunno how long it's been in use, but I suspect it's been installed by someone other than our IT people. (The senior IT bod is utterly devoted to Lotus/Domino -- "it's the answer to everything" and our 'Intranet' is based around it, rather than conventional HTML. Our development team did have our own Wiki (not Mediawiki based) but had no IT support so it never got anywhere).

Anyway, in due course I shall make a few discreet enquiries and see if we might be able to get some mediawiki input here...

EdJogg 22:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Could be fun. Apart form th euser interface I woudol say anyone is insane to deploy mediawiki. We did it because of the huge community of WP users and the acceptability of the interface, but OMG it is poor poor poor.
I hope your integration team use PostgreSQL not MySQL though.
Tim Trent Talk to me 22:09, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

TSW Barnstar...

TSW-Barnstar.png The Missing Wheel
I know the barnstars not a work of art, but I award it you for getting this wiki off the ground! Well done! Bluegoblin7 23:26, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Awww. Thanks. It may be off the ground but we need a head of steam! Tim Trent Talk to me 23:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Reminder...

Hye Tim,

Just thought i'd remind you: VOTE FOR TRAIN/TRAM OF THE YEAR!!!

Theres a link on the main page... which btw im gonna redesign again: ive decided i dont like it!

Bluegoblin7 21:04, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

The challenge is, I have no idea what to vote for :) Tim Trent Talk to me 21:38, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Transport in XXX cats

Hi Tim. I saw you had done another raft of cat sorting. It did occur to me that the 'Transport in XXX' cats might be useful here, although we would need to rename them as Rail transport in xxx.

I can see that there is scope for people searching for subjects related geographically -- a couple of obvious subcats could be Railway societies in XXX and Heritage railways in XXX, for example, but I'm sure we'd think of more. Changing them over would be a cinch for a bot, methinks...

Thoughts? EdJogg 09:41, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Renaming cats is impossible though, isn't it? Move is the only mechanism and it doesn't work in the cat namespace. Your concept is right, but the practicalities banjax it by a simple rename. Tim Trent Talk to me 19:55, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
But you're missing a significant point - the cats don't exist yet, except as redlinks, so they don't need to be moved/renamed! 'All' that is required is for the pages including the category to be edited. Bots do it all the time at WP...
I've never used it, but is there scope for 'AWB' to work here. What about other bots? I presume you've investigated this? (Note - this question is now veering towards The Works...!)
EdJogg 02:09, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Excellent point to have missed :). When we set TSW up we incorporated precisely no bots. Two reasons:
  1. We had no idea what we needed
  2. We had no idea how to do it anyway
We're better equipped now to know, and we can easily find out how. The major thing is for us as TSW, not me and Bernd, to decided what is needed.
When we move to "The Works" on this we need to note that there is absolutely no scope at all for using any bot that requires IRC in any shape or form. Our data centre prohibits it, even if it never "leaves the server" (because they can't tell whether it does or not, and, even if it doesn't today, it could tomorrow). Loads of WP bots intercommunicate on an IRC channel.
The "How weird is that?" question may now be asked!
Tim Trent Talk to me 09:06, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Browser-breaking missing cat

Any idea why I can't open the missing cat "Category:User:Yaohua2000" to see which are the 31 articles within?

Warning: attempting to open it may prevent your browser opening any further TSW windows -- it stunned two of mine!

EdJogg 10:05, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Thinking about this further, it may be getting confused with the two colons, thus not knowing which namespace it's in. Hence I have unlinked the cat above, and provided a better link, using the search facility to find the pages which make use of that cat. I think an adjustment to the cat name is in order!
EdJogg 16:49, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Repeatable and currently intractable. It can't be the colon. It has to be something weird in the data stream Tim Trent Talk to me 10:18, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
We're using the "curl" browser to debug. The problem appears to be that thye server is doing absolutely nothing at all, except sending the reply to this request one but at a time (Ok, I'm exaggerating). It hasn't hung, other users can surf and edit, but answering this request will eventually time a normal browser out. Curl will sit and wait until hell freezes over. Bernd is currently baffled, primarily because it defies logic.
The colon is not to blame. I've proved that buy creating a similar scenario. It might be the first file in the category list, but we can't find out what it is because the database is so "well designed" as to be impenetrable.
Tim Trent Talk to me 11:30, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Ok, we've done every logical thing. The server had zero load, and about 30 bytes were transmitted, after which Curl waited like a fool on his first date who got there too early and was stood up. No log entry, no nothing. So we are bewildered. Tim Trent Talk to me 13:48, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Steam LORRIES

Hi Tim, just a little comment before you commit the same faux pas as you did at WP (although it's easier to fix here... :o) ). If you do some googling you will find that the term 'steam truck' is quite rare.

Look here and you'll see the 'research' I did earlier this year regarding the usage of relevant terminology.

The cat name at Commons is also wrong, and it's on my Commons todo list to get that fixed too. Pity I didn't get round to creating both cats when I had the chance!

But thanks, nevertheless! EdJogg 15:44, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

oops! You're right, of course. Though dos that hold good for the USA too?
I know a joke about Fox Paz
Tim Trent Talk to me 18:10, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
USA? Probably. Although I think they were more into steam cars over there. Besides, 757 hits vs 11800 hits is good enough for me! (PS - note the two other new sections above!)
EdJogg 19:15, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
I've started the process at WP. No idea how to handle Commons, so that's yours :) Tim Trent Talk to me 14:44, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, and thanks for the heads-up. I would have done it myself in due course, but it's a relatively low priority (which is why Commons hasn't been tackled yet!). EdJogg 15:46, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I've found how to do it at Commons. I think!! You place {{category redirect|Steam lorries}} at the top of the Steam trucks category, and it looks as if a bot goes and does it. see here. It looks best to wait until the WP migration takes place (or not) Tim Trent Talk to me 16:37, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Christian Wolmar at SWRS

You wanted me to remind you that this was happening tonight. (See calendar entry for details)

EdJogg 09:31, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

I did, and I can't get there tonight. but thank you. Tim Trent Talk to me 14:41, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

New new main page...

Hi Tim,

Other than the colour, which i still need to do, do you think the new main page is ready to go live?...

Cheers,

Bluegoblin7 12:39, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Those bounding boxes that are empty look kind of weird. It has to be a div thing. Otherwise, after colour, sure, why not :) Tim Trent Talk to me 14:10, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi

Hi. I registered here as Bluegoblin7 wanted my help here with various designs of workforce pages. I am a new user here so I am not quite familiar with the policies but I would like to start a work force as they seem to be lacking and I would be grateful if you could offer any advice or help in doing so. I am familiar with modern UK and Japanese railway lines so I can help in these areas. I am also willing to help with portal designs as this is something im quite familiar with on wikipedia. Again any advice on this would be appreciated. Thanks very much. Tbo 157 16:47, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Welcome. Policies here are not yet evolved, which is both good and not so good. The best thing is that users have not yet designed a bureaucracy! We don't require "No Original Research", but we like citations. In other words this is a good, common sense based, railfan oriented site.
We're looking, apart from the familiar skin, to distance ourselves from WP and be beautiful, attractive to enter, and freestanding.
I wonder if that answer helps or hinders? Tim Trent Talk to me 17:59, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the answer. It does help alot. I don't particularly like the bureaucracy associated with Wikipedia including its standardised processes, statuses (admin, B'crat etc) etc. A wiki like this where users of similar interest can edit as a community is always the kind of wiki I have wanted. Thanks. Tbo 157 20:53, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
We're bound to end up with process etc, but we can do our best to get rid of excesses :) The community will design itself, and, where we borrow WP style processes, such as RfA, our job is to simplify simplify and simplify. Content is important. The community provides it. The rest allows content to come to life. The one major similarity is that, like Jimbo Wales, I founded this place with Bernd, my business partner and good friend. And my (our) votes carry as much or as little weight here as his does there (except on legal issues, when we are struck with owning the problem, and must carry the day). Tim Trent Talk to me 22:11, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Sounds good. Just a note that Ive made a comment about the proposed RfA process on its talk page at Trains talk:Requests for adminship. Im sure you will agree with me that on any wiki discussion and community consensus is important. Thanks. Tbo 157 22:15, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Exactly. The only areas where as "buck stops here" guy I can't allow consensus to govern are legal issues (coz I get sued, not you) and funding by adverts (because donations really do not work, we are not a charity, and I can't carry the cost as a cost - servers and bandwidth have to be paid for). Tim Trent Talk to me 22:25, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Thats understandable. Ive also clarified what I meant on the proposal talk page. Thanks again for all the help. Tbo 157 22:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi again. Sorry to keep bothering you like this but could you please temporarily change the protection level of the main page down to semi protection until the new main page is completed. There are currently a few coding errors and design aspects I would like to help with on the page. After all this is a wiki which means everyone can edit it and very few users on this wiki can currently edit fully protected pages. Thanks very much. Tbo 157 17:11, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[reset indent] Have done Tbo. Semi it is. Bluegoblin7 17:48, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. Just to check I hope its ok with other users. I don't want to cause any conflicts or anything. Tbo 157 17:55, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
It shouldn't do (please correct me if im wrong). The only vandalism to the Main Page so far was a stupid move by one editor, so ive kept move permissions as sysops only! Bluegoblin7 18:00, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Thoughts for the future...

Hi Tim,

A few thoughts for the future...

  1. Expand the workforces, and start a grading system, aswell as something like WP:Council, but less formal, for future forces
  2. Get all the help complete and centralised (started i believe)
  3. Get in some Wp processes, such as AfD, RfA etc, but make them MUCH less formal

Any good? (Feel free to add more!)

Bluegoblin7 18:09, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Its probably a good idea to get a community discussion started on this to see what the consensus is on how things should be done. Thanks. Tbo 157 18:25, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Yup, let's take this to the cafe. And let's never lose sight of the mantra of simplification/ Tim Trent Talk to me 21:43, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Have copied to Left Luggage, as can't think where else to put it!?!?!? - Bluegoblin7 10:58, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
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