Trains:Station Cafe (Left Luggage)

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This is one of the Station Cafe pages. We use them to discuss the technical issues, policies, and operations of Train Spotting World. The Station Cafe is divided into sections covering these different aspects, but if you can't decide which to use, try Left Luggage. You can see all station cafe sections at once here. Please sign and date your posts (by typing ~~~~ at the end).

Station Cafe sections
Buffet Car
post | watch

TSW Policy

The Works
post | watch

Technical Issues

Mess Room
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Ideas and Suggestions

Guard's Van
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Requests for Help

Left Luggage
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Everything else



I've just hammered down this set pf pages adding a shedload of pages from WP that seem to fit. However I have added them uncritically, for the most part. I'd appreciate other eyes being passed over them, ripping things out of not relevant here.

We are not a WP clone. We will use the things they have that are useful, will add our own and will remove heavy bureaucracy wherever we find we are slipping into it.

OK, that sounds like a directive. It isn't. It's a desire. I loathe the WP bureaucracy and am wholly against creating one here. I just want things that help, not that involve people in barrack room lawyer stuff.

Tim Trent Talk to me 20:58, 26 November 2007 (UTC)


Just noticed that the default WP signature includes a '(talk)' hotlink after the username, but the TSW one does not. Any reason for this? EdJogg 14:16, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

It arrived "suddenly" on WP. I have no idea what the setting is that triggers it, or of it is available in the stable release that we use. If it's available to us I am happy to trigger it. It's useful. Any pointers gratefully received! Tim Trent Talk to me 18:28, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
That WP talk thing seems to be switching on and off on a daily basis! Tim Trent Talk to me 20:30, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Found it. But it requires a patch and it also requires trusting the latest release of mediawiki, which is unstable, because WP runs on the current unstable version. Hell will freeze over (or we'll need an overriding reason) before we upgrade this, it's too fragile. If this were "real" software it would never have been allowed into the wild. I have updates pages MediaWiki:Signature and MediaWiki:Signature-anon in TSW so that, should we ever upgrade (and I do mean "ever" - almost all wikis have frozen on their "release at date of installation"), it will remind us to do it to the other wikis, too, assuming it actually works at that point (they fiddle with things back at Mediawiki). Tim Trent Talk to me 07:45, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I guess it's something that we can easily live without.
I'm not sure of your rose-tinted view of "real" software though. M$ new operating systems are notoriously unreliable: where possible, business users wait for a year before deploying them (I'm waiting for the Service Pack for Vista, which is not due until March). Can't rememeber the release number, but WordPerfect released a pre-release version by mistake that was riddled with bugs and had a severe impact on their users' confidence. And as for eBay...the developers there are ALWAYS fiddling with the live environment, and from forum feedback their Turbolister program has a catalogue of issues as they tweak and and break and fix. WP is also 'fiddled with', but that is in the nature of a wiki, and it seems pretty reliable on the whole, whowever unstable mediawiki is. I would also be inclined to say that ALL software has bugs in, it's just that some are more obvious than others!
EdJogg 09:24, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

pictures in Cat:User:Yaohua2000

The category is redlinked, but it contains pictures and they can be seen now. Some are orphans, at least one is 8MB. We need to determine whether we need the pictures, the more so since they proved technically problematic to render:

there are 3 HUGE (3-8MB) files in it and MW has default limits for the convert process that totally blocked it. the poor thing tried to convert those enormous files with a 10kB memory limit. bound to fail. increased it, and it now works.

So says Bernd. It took him a disproportionately long time to solve. SO, do the pictures and articles add to us or do they have negligible value?

Tim Trent Talk to me 09:32, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

The three huge files are all video clips. The pictures are mostly used in Qingzang railway, so may be seen in context. Presumably all this it is still in place at WP, so it could be reasonably argued that there's no need for the page/images here. EdJogg 01:10, 3 December 2007 (UTC)


Does anyone else think that "TSWer" is an ugly word? I'm sure it was created in good faith as an equivalent to "Wikipedian", but, unlike that, it isn't possible to say it out loud.

Any objections to changing Cat:TSWers to Cat:TSW users?

EdJogg 15:27, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

The original does sound a bit like ~gasp~ tossers, doesn't it! Now we get "category fun". Want to try to get the bot from WP that does cat changes? Tim Trent Talk to me 20:28, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I genuinely hadn't spotted that! But now I find it hard to read it as anything else :o). Try reading the intro to Trains:Welcoming committee now...
As for the bot...(a) I've never used one, (b) it would be one of the most useful bots to have, but, (c) we've caught the problem early: 6 categories with it in the title, and another 28 pages with it somewhere else.
NB - The bulk of the affected pages are from the adoption scheme, some of which should be moving to SW. Feel free to start moving things around! (I'll add it to the ToDo list.)
EdJogg 23:59, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Thoughts for the future...

A few thoughts for the future...

  1. Expand the workforces, and start a grading system, aswell as something like WP:Council, but less formal, for future forces
  2. Get all the help complete and centralised (started i believe)
  3. Get in some Wp processes, such as AfD, RfA etc, but make them MUCH less formal

Any good? (Feel free to add more!)

This is just a list of my personal ideas. Please feel free to add more, and also please please please comment on them... I would like to impelemt some in time for TSW's 1st birthday in February, but obviously they take time to make, so please comment ASAP!!! (but that's a nice ASAP... don't rush it! ;]) Bluegoblin7 10:59, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

OK, my thoughts...
(1) Workforces will not need much formal process, either to setup or run, as they are really intended for co-ordinating the efforts of groups of like-minded contributors to build on a subject area. For example, if you got some of your tram-enthusiast friends to join in I would expect you all to get on with organising and running the workforce without any kind of centralised control. In the future this may change, but I suggest we cross that bridge when we come to it!
(2) Help pages are worth concentrating on. They need to be built-up at Spotting World and transcluded across (see discussion elsewhere!), which will avoid duplicating effort. Same goes for the Tutorial, which appears to have two pages missing!
(3) Processes need to be developed, but ony where needed. 'RfA', for example, will need to be simplified at first due to the dearth of contributors. Once the Wiki is properly running we can introduce something more formal. If we recognise this now then it will avoid arguments later.
You also need to remember a couple of things. WP has evolved complex processes for certain tasks to (hopefully) ensure fair play and that everyone has a chance to comment or disagree. Some of these processes, and the timing thereof, rely on the sheer number of visitors (editors) to WP -- they know that there is a high chance of interested parties 'dropping by' within a short time frame, and there are plenty of people willing to help implement the results.
We need to consider and evolve processes on a case-by-case basis, as needs arise. For example, AfD is achieved through the Station Cafe pages, at present, since we are unlikely to encounter any that require discussion. As numbers increase, and users start adding more pages, it will become more likely that disputes will arise over content, and that is when we need to have the processes to handle it.
As for me, I ought to take a back seat over Christmas. Any major editing time I allow myself needs to be directed towards Traction Engine content at WP. As WP's '(un)official Traction Engine correspondent' I have been failing in my duties... :o)
EdJogg 13:36, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
(2) Help pages are worth concentrating on. They need to be built-up at Spotting World and transcluded across (see discussion elsewhere!), which will avoid duplicating effort. Same goes for the Tutorial, which appears to have two pages missing!"
Not sure if I mentioned this before or not... But this is an important issue. On thing I really dislike about WP is the help section is so scattered around that in order to get the answers you are looking for you have to go through a dozen or so pages. Kind like those damn automated telephone answering machines that piss everyone off. If there is anyway that could be avoided here it's well worth it. Being overly bureaucratic is the cause for that. Let's hope it doesn't get that way here.
--DP67 (talk/contribs) 18:53, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

""So farthis has been mainly my fault: i will delete all the help pages we don't need and the ones we do ill redirect to spottingworld. Let me know what YOU want to see help wise! --BG7 18:55, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Just so you know, I'm not talking about here, I realize and respect the fact that this is a work in progress.. There's allot of stuff missing and that's to be expected. The other place on the other hand has gotten so far spread out it's a nightmare to get help if you need it because no one page gives you all the details or at least a general summary without having to click a dozen links reading policies that may contradict one another.. For help it shouldn't be that way. If a visitor ("potential FA/GA editor") comes in and can't find what they want on the first page that came up on a search engine or within a couple of clicks... They're gone.. Easy navigation for the visitor is the key to any websites success.
--DP67 (talk/contribs) 19:35, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Well thats a reason I put places to find help on the main page (that reminds me - it needs moving!), but i just copied the WP help when i strted setting it up. As i move it across, i'll rationalise it. --BG7 19:39, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Newsletter for the wiki...

Hello TSW Users,

I was just wanting some input from other users as to what to call our new newsletter, what it should contain, and how it should look.

So far, suggested names have included:

  • Platform Ticket
  • Notice Board
  • Timetable Board
  • Driver's Notebook

Please add any layouts etc to my sandbox ----> User:Bluegoblin7/Sandbox

Please add any ideas for content there too.


Bluegoblin7 17:10, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

  • Spotting diary?
  • Transport Journal (and include all (!) of the wikis in it) Tim Trent Talk to me 17:26, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes transport journal sounds good. Tbo 157 17:45, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
Ive mocked up a possible template for the newsletter at User:Tbo 157/newsletter sandbox. Colours, titles, layout can easily be changed. Tbo 157 18:17, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Other suggestions to bounce around..
  • TSW Dispatch(er) or The Dispatch(er), or just Dispatch(er) within the trains motif but also a popular name among newsprint media.
  • TSW Tower
  • TSW Yard Board
  • Form 19 (Not sure if it means much to the UK, but Form 19 is the main work order form for all US railroads. Without a form 19, you sit and wait.) A few other ideas may come to mind when my head stops aching.
--DP67 (talk/contribs) 01:36, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
"Transport Journal" is good: allows use with multiple 'spotter' wikis and uses generic terminology, although "Spotters' Diary" has some merit too.
TSW Dispatcher/Tower/Yard Board/Form 19 all use US-specific terminology which we are trying to avoid (DP67 will be unaware of the debates that went into the naming of the Station Cafe and its sub-areas).
EdJogg 09:37, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Although the name and format of this newsletter hasn't been decided yet, you can sign up to be part of the editing team or subscribe to the newsletter here. You can also see a draft of the newsletter here Thanks. Tbo 157 12:49, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Functional format for the year pages

Okay, so I started on this quite a while ago, but it took until today to get one of the year pages fully fleshed out. I just went through all of the inbound links to 1981 and added events from all those pages to the year page. Other than the lack of references (the Amtrak list has a few that need to be added here), this is the format that I was thinking of for year pages. I didn't see much of anything for model railway product releases or other hobby news; I would think that since this wiki is all about trains, model and hobby news would be appropriate on the year pages too. Images on the year pages should depict the events that are listed; other images that are created in the year but don't depict specific events belong in the appropriate Images of YEAR category.

The only other part that I would add right now would be an awards section for things like the 1981 Railroader of the Year (Lawrence Cena of the Santa Fe), Short Line Railroad of the Year, Regional Railroad of the Year, E. H. Harriman Awards and any others that can be identified. Some of the recent year pages on WP have sections like this. Slambo (Speak) 21:41, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, one other thing that I'm planning on is to update the navbox to delink categories and pages that are not logical. For example, since we won't have any images of 2009 until January 1, 2009, that shouldn't be linked. This will cut down on the pages and categories in the wanted lists a little. Since the box is already on a lot of pages, I'll be doing the update and testing separately and then copying over the working template when it's done (which I can hopefully get to this weekend). Slambo (Speak) 21:45, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

That looks amazing. BG7 is designing our railway wheel barnstars, and this beacon deserves one. You've shown us already how to start to distance ourselves from WP. It strikes me that we should each take a year and follow your example. Tim Trent Talk to me 22:10, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
I've started work on 2007. It is a detailed process. I'm adding it to the to do list as a global task. I suggest we each grab a page and note it there. Tim Trent Talk to me 12:57, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
I created User:Slambo/Years as a sort of check-off list to mark the pages that are under construction and to strike them out when they are completed. The list also includes all of the anniversary pages, so I'll build one of those as an example page too. Really, they're very similar to the years, but they're centered around a date instead. Slambo (Speak) 18:32, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Site and community growth

I think we all want our community to grow. The one key thing is that we can not force growth. By that I mean we can't put links to us into every goshdarned newsgroup, we can;t make search engines find us better than they do (that comes with time).

What we can do is to have fun.

Fun is infectious. Work is alien. When the task of making the content fly here is fun, things happen.

I've said this before and I'll keep saying it. Content is king.

There are two sides to this place:

  • Casual visitors, the folks who come here for interest and information
  • Those who get involved, even if briefly

The first are the bread and butter here. They drop in, they read a while, they may tell a friend, and they leave. We hope very much that they click an advert, but we don't expect it or ask for it. These are the people who cause the bills to be paid, and we love them.

The second are the people who probably come here. They are the creators, the editors, the politicians, the inspiration. We, for I am one, we have fun by creating this place. We enjoy titivating articles, sharing experiences, chatting to each other. We don't even see the adverts any more, and we certainly do not click them.

The community is made up from the second sort. It will grow by world of mouth, by club members writing pages about clubs, by embryo engine drivers writing about their experience driving an engine. We are not an encyclopaedia. We may want to cite things and write well, but we can put opinion end experience in. We cause content to be generated. And spiders visit us from search engines and index that content. Every edit is sent out on our RSS feed for recent changes, and that feed is registered with every RSS directory we can find. That generates inbound links of random value deep within our site.

And those links attract search engines and attract the casual visitor. Those are the folks we create this stuff for. And ourselves, of course!

So the site increases its visitor count, slowly, and our community increases slowly. And steadily. And that's the whole point. Tortoise and hare.

Now, if anyone can help with places to add real links to us that are relevant to forum topics, then great. If you have a club you want to showcase here, great. If you have friends to tell about the place, great. That;s how we grow.

Tim Trent Talk to me 16:04, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

One easy suggestion is to add a link into your signature on train related boards and in your email client. It basically says "I'm involved in the projects listed below" without placing undue strain on the recipients of the messages; links to sites where you are very involved are generally accepted and expected in signatures. For example, I've had the main TSW page in my sig at Trainboard since I joined here; the server logs should show the referrer results from there (but I suspect that it's pretty small so far).
I've thought of making business cards for myself that list my research project links (this would be one of them, WP another, The Rip Track [my own site] a third, etc.) that I can use when I visit reference libraries (oh, how I wish the NMRA's Kalmbach Memorial Library was closer to me!) or industry locations. Slambo (Speak) 20:00, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Lupin's Editor tools..

Would it be possible to talk to Lupin (on Wikipedia) and ask him if we can import his editor tools here? I'm not sure if they would work here as is but they are very handy to have. His vandal tools or Twinkle might also be handy for future use. Also; On WP you are able to view/edit your raw watch list is it possible to have that option here as well? Makes stripping wiki from entire categories and raw text dumping into your watch list.

--DP67 (talk/contribs) 14:52, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Some thoughts on unique content

Here are some less than random thoughts from today's foray out of the house...

So we want to be more than just a WP mirror. Well, on my recent jaunt to the local hobby shop today, I flipped through a few of the magazines there. In the Milwaukee Railroader (publication of the Milwaukee Road Historical Association), I see an article about the Milwaukee Road parlor solarium cars, an article about Milwaukee passenger trains 56/58, and another article about Atkins, Iowa, that showed how the Milwaukee Road passed through the town and its impact on the local area. In Narrow Gauge and Short Line Gazette, I see an article about the Victoria Falls Hotel Trolley, and an article about 30" gauge railroads in Montana. Other magazines have similarly specific articles. These are specifically the kinds of articles that we can write and update here to create the unique content we need to differentiate ourselves from other sites.

We haven't built stringent notability requirements for article inclusion here yet, but as far as I can see, the only real requirement is that the article has to have something to do with rail transport. In other words, let's get cracking and start writing articles on more specific topics and start tracking things down to details that are too minute for WP's notability guidelines. Sure, we should include those big topics, but we should also include articles about lesser known subjects, like we often see in the glossy magazines. If we can put enough of them together on a regular basis, we can even look into (long term thinking here...) publishing our own printed periodical.

So, how do we get articles like that? Find a subject that you're interested in learning more about, research it and write about it here. That's how I got into writing the article about the Pioneer Zephyr, Timken 1111, California Southern Railroad (looks like those last two aren't imported yet), and a number of other topics that have come up in the three years I've been editing over there. Our inclusion criteria here is much more liberal, so let's get to it. Slambo (Speak) 03:07, 24 December 2007 (UTC)


How come Special:Events does not respond to includeonly/noinclude tags?

Have a look at February and you'll see three complete copies of the (fairly long) Brighton Modelworld page!

If we could use these tags, each event page could have a visible section as a normal 'article page' and a hidden section to display on the 'events' page. A template would do nicely for this.

EdJogg 22:14, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Only the guy who wrote the calendar will know the answer, I think. Tim Trent Talk to me 23:02, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, I've asked a question at the Calendar extension help page at MeidaWiki, so we'll see if it ever gets a response... EdJogg 00:38, 14 January 2008 (UTC)


Is it about time someone archived tha cafe?

I'd do it, but i'm VERY busy at the moment, doing some stuff to, Planes and ScoutWiki.

BG7 13:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Two pages "rescued"

A long-time editor at WP has posted his intentions to reduce two lists of railfan jargon to little more than stubs a week from now when he removes every item that is not referenced. I've copied the text of the two pages here using the same titles: List of U.S. railfan jargon and List of UK railfan jargon. I haven't copied the images yet mostly because I don't have enough time to go through all of them to check their licenses and reupload them. Slambo (Speak) 21:42, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

It might be appropriate to mention your rescue on the WP talk pages, with links, and that we have different standards of citation. Tim Trent Talk to me 23:10, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you, Slambo -- several items now removed from my ToDo list! I had anticipated this, but had temporarilly removed the pages from my WP watchlist while I caught up with my Christmas backlog! I have captured List of NZ railfan jargon to complete the set, and created the CompactTOC that they use.
BTW - I respect the judgement of the editor in question. WP is pushing harder for references in order to be taken more seriously, and, unfortunately, these pages fall far short of the expected standards. The difference, with him editing them, is that the pages will be retained (albeit in severely truncated form), whereas another editor, or group of editors, might decide that they were irredeemable, and hence remove them altogether -- I suspect they wouldn't survive a third AfD unless much better referenced.
EdJogg 00:19, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
It's horses for courses. WP is an encyclopaedia. We are a place for fun and amusement and happen to include good articles, with a preference for citations but no necessity. The WP editor is correct and has also given good warning.
I think we may genuinely promote ourselves there on the talk pages (not sure about the articles) as a resource that is able to hold uncited material.
I'm leaving that to you guys. You are better judges of the mood there than I am.
Tim Trent Talk to me 01:04, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
I added Railroad nicknames, too. I suspect wp:Rail terminology is also vulnerable, but it is sleep time. Tim Trent Talk to me 01:20, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
I considered the other two pages too, especially the nicknames page, but they weren't under threat yet. Slambo (Speak) 13:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Just passing through, but I picked up Rail terminology, too. It is bound to be vulnerable. Like you I have not grabbed the images. I may have a change to do so later, but I suspect they are less vulnerable and that we have time on our side Tim Trent Talk to me 18:20, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Interwiki links and map...

Well ladies and gentlemen,

I can now reveal that TrainSpottingWorld is on the OFFICIAL meta-wiki Interwiki Map, as used by Wikipedia, Wikimedia etc!

The links won't actually work for a while yet - until the latest map gets sent out to all the wikis that use it - this could be anywhere from immediately until the end of the quarter!

To use the links, simply add [[swtrain:]], the same prefix we use on the SW projects, in front of the page name here!

Please, leave a message in the edit summary to say that the link sin;t active yet!

Planes and the rest of the sws will hopefully follow soon!

BG7 19:08, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Transport Journal

For the purposes of improving the Transport Journal, can I ask users to just comment on the following:

  • Do you read the Transport Journal? If no, why not?
  • Is it easy to follow and read?
  • Is it too long or not simple enough?
  • Is it useful?
  • Any other comments?

Sorry I had to spam your talk pages but it seems to be the only way to get attention since we've had very few comments so far. See Trains:The Transport Journal/Comments. We need satisfied readers. If there are no readers or no satisfied readers, the editors are wasting their time. Thanks very much. Tbo 12:57, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

OK. You wanted my comments, so here they are...
Frankly I cannot see the point in the Transport Journal (which is why I have neither subscribed nor participated in its editing). It seems like an awful lot of work, especially if it is 'published' every week. There is the danger that it is diverting attention away from the work of improving the existing Wiki content and help pages (etc), and creating new content -- both of which are far more important.
These comments are not levelled at any of the TJ participants in particular, nor are they a 'knee-jerk' reaction -- I felt much the same way when the idea was first mooted.
Sorry. EdJogg 01:51, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks EdJogg. Comments are valuable. If enough people feel the same way, we may close the TJ or replace it. To be honest, I agree with you in part but I do think there should be a page or a newsletter, maybe monthly, which outlines simply, current discussions and issues as it is useful when the wiki grows larger for keeping track of what is going on. Tbo 11:36, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
If the TJ is discontinued it might be worth considering whether the Community Portal, or one of the related 'news' pages might fulfil this role, at least for wiki-specific information. The TJ, from what I remember, tries to incorporate information for all the active SW wikis, AND the outside world in general. That is a very wide scope... EdJogg 17:23, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. Anoy other comments from other users? Tbo 21:23, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
I think it may be a good idea to use the Station announcements page for the wiki related news. Tbo 21:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
If anyone has been reading my notes, then you will notice that I suggested some supplements. The best way foward i think is (for now) to switch to monthly, and cover JUST the SW wikis, and then perhaps a bimonthly one for real-world news, community news etc... let me know ASAP, as i'll mention it in tomorrow's TJ.
BG7 17:26, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I think the formatting should be changed. It needs to be simplified and we should stop with those long announcements and editors notes. Short and simple bullet pointed announcements are all we need in my opinion. Remember the TJ was setup to be helpful and informative to all. Class91 17:35, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Im not so sure about real-world news. If I wanted real rail news then I would go and read a magazine or look at other websites. At the moment, I don't think its feasible to do real rail news due to the lack of editors. It would take alot of time to do a rail news magazine. Just look at any rail magazine and try and count the number of articles there are. Also everyone is interested in different articles. Tbo 17:41, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

(reset indent) Hmm... well, they are all fair points. What I suggest is the following...

  1. Lose the Real World Section for good at the moment
  2. Move editor's notes to the bottom, and smaller - we don't need it at the top!
  3. Make a section for each wiki - Planes/Trains/SW - within that we can have the community/news/announcements sections etc. It also removes having empty sections or sections with repeated info.

Failing all this, simply switch to a small news paragraph simply for each wiki, without large cross wiki section.


BG7 17:55, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Have a look at Sworld:SpottingWorld:The Transport Journal/Issue 9. I think thats all we need. Nice and simple. Tbo 18:03, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Please note: 'Publication' of future issues is suspended while the editors (and the subscribers) are inactive at TSW. Complaints should be directed to the current editors... EdJogg 10:18, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

Actually, weve decided to change the Transport Journal into a simple page outlining, briefly,the latest news at spottingworld projects which is updated monthly. Tbo 21:01, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Sounds like a very sensible move. EdJogg 12:16, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Yep I agree to - it was planned to go from Issue 9, but we postponed it to Issue 10 to get 9 released on time!
Also, would anybody have any problems if I expand the Transport Journal to my wiki, Obviously it would require minor modifications, but I can see it only as a benefit to both wikis!
BG7 16:30, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
I suppose I might be considered to be "relevant" here since I created the place. I see no objection as long as the TJ is a useful organ to it being shared between sites. Indeed I see this as positive. I do see thsi as a c9ommunity decision, though. The GFDL, while not covering this explicitly, seems to militate in favour of it, too. [I may not be active at present, but I do run my eye over what is going on!] Tim Trent Talk to me 07:34, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

We need at least one Bureaucrat

It strikes me that I should not be the only one with the door key. One needs to be one in order to action (eg) requests for adminship. I just spent ages wondering why no-one had finished making Dalek X an admin and then realised that I had to do it!

The role requires a responsible attitude because it can also screw the place up totally.

Thoughts, self (or other) nominations, etc, are needed I think.

Tim Trent Talk to me 07:41, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

With some hesitation, I put my name forward. I am not looking for more responsibility, but I recognise the need to have a 'backup bureaucrat' here. I do still monitor 'recent changes', Mon-Fri at least, but I have been MUCH more active at WP in recent months, and my limited time has to be shared between the two wikis (currently about 99.5% WP). Hence I am not expecting to be a 'pro-active' bureaucrat...
EdJogg 10:24, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Hmm... i'd like to also nominate myself, however I think it requires more "community"(!) discussion, and a RfB to sort it out. So, once we agree it's necesary (i'm not that convinced... we're a small community still!), we should start by doing the RfBs on the current RfA pages.
Does that make sense? Probably not!
BG7 17:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
We do need one more, certainly, because there are times when Bernd and I are both unavailable to do whatever it is a bureaucrat can do. I agree with the need for discussion. I think we are really looking for a person who is usually available, and knows it is extra responsibility, not any form of privilege. Tim Trent Talk to me 07:52, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Ok point taken! I would like to nominate myself as, although I haven't been active at the moment (due to something known as MediaWiki-itis - i presume Tim and Bernd know what I'm on about!), but I am always around, am able to get on every day pretty much 24/7, and have my preferences set so that I am emailed when a page on my watchlist is changed! ;)
In the meantime (as in after i've had my MediaWikibiotics!) I will set up a batch RfB page (something such as Trains:RfA/RfB's) and transclude it into the main RfA page. Users can then nominate/vote etc there, rather than cluttering RfA with RfBs!
BG7 18:40, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[indent reset] I am content with any of the admins we have taking on this role. It really is a matter of you all being happy. I do think that one of the criteria must be that the nominee is an admin, here or elsewhere, and is in recognised "good standing" (whatever that means) Tim Trent Talk to me 22:21, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes I perfectly agree with the criteria. If they are an admin here, great, and admin elsewhere, then good, but we must check first!
In all fairness do we need to go down the line of RfBs? Is it not easier to just use this discussion area and do it on here?
If so, then I see it as this:

Voting moved to new section below for ease of use.

BG7 18:57, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
That works for me. Looks like nominations are open. The floor is the community's Tim Trent Talk to me 23:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
Note, please: Each candidacy is a separate thing. We are not holding a popularity contest. We may end up with 1, 2 (or more), or none. Tim Trent Talk to me 17:07, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Candidates for bureaucratship

EdJogg (talk · contribs) - Self Nom

I think I may as well close as "approved" Tim Trent Talk to me 22:03, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Bluegoblin7 (talk · contribs) - self nom

I think I may as well close as "approved" Tim Trent Talk to me 22:03, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

We're conducting an experiment

We know that the adverts which fund the server are "tuned out" by regular editors. There is absolutely no point in displaying them to the regulars because you never see them and thus will never see anything of interest to click.

So we are now experimenting with only displaying them to non logged in (thus unregistered) users. We expect that will have two benefits:

  1. your experience as a registered user will improve
  2. The clickthru ratio will improve because we no longer see the adverts and a better or more profitable set of adverts will be displayed to the casual user.

I bet you never even noticed!

Tim Trent Talk to me 09:25, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

You're right, I hadn't noticed!
An added benefit is that the right-hand sidebar adverts will no longer obscure parts of the display. Hope the experiment works OK. EdJogg 11:44, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
We ought now to have "unobscured" the part that offended. Don;t know why we didn;t see how to solve that before. ~slaps own wrist~
We've also changed a great deal of where adverts appear. Our objective is to generate enough revenue to see us through lean times. Our server costs have more than trebled We have enough in our war chest to cover it, no problem with that at all, and we've added a fun and stupid site here with adverts to help bridge the gap.
All in all the move looks positive. The old server was great until they gave us crazy limits on number of open files and number of concurrent processes.
We're also looking at performance improvements by moving away from Apache for the wikis into a specialist environment.
Anyway, take a look at the new advertising regime by logging out. Only click an advert if the advert interests you.
Tim Trent Talk to me 14:10, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Publishing TrainSpottingWorld Content


RAIL Magazine would like to publish a TrainSpottingWorld article ( in our next edition. Please advise on proper protocol for requesting and receiving permission and where credit should be attributed to.

Regards, Rich Sampson Assistant Editor RAIL Magazine

Hi Rich,
The correct attribution is to cite the URL of the article and attribute it to Train Spotting World as having been released under the GNU Free Documentation License (which is linked to at the foot of every page)
Train Spotting World is a combination of many sources, all GFDL licenced, and, as such, may be used freely provided attribution is given and provided the attribution chain remains unbroken.
I'm glad you found an article that appeals. I hope you find many such. Tim Trent Talk to me 14:14, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
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